President's Day

2025-02-17 02:21:45

ifea88@hubzilla.monster

The quote below by one of America great presidents is still sadly not only relevant but explicative of the current zeitgeist. One only has to substitute "colored man" for any minority who are considered other e.g. LGBTQ 🌈, women, Muslims.

"If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
Lyndon B. Johnson

show all 14 reacties

2025-02-17 17:37:05

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

Wow, that's hefty. Sadly, LBJ did not go down in history as a great president, Vietnam and all. Or am I to pessimistic?

2025-02-17 19:05:48

David Palk

palky@hub.netzgemeinde.eu

I think he was a bit 'innocent' & got shafted from all sides. Also he was always going to be compared to the Kennedy 'mafia' so on a bit of a hiding to nothing. As I recall JFK made the commitment to 'defend democracy in South Vietnam'. I could be wrong, it's not my area of expertise. Ask me anything about f'ing Brexit or the militarische in Mittle Europa & I'll have an 'informed' opinion.

2025-02-17 19:21:39

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

Yes, "I knew John F. Kennedy, and you sir are not John F. Kennedy". In JFK's own times, he wasn't exactly uncontroversial, but now he's a coat rack for all noble values. I wonder how he would have felt about it himself. Johnson inherited the Vietnam war.

By all means, vent your informed opinion.

2025-02-18 11:18:59

Cartel Institute

syndicate@cartel.institute

And it works in all directions. Tell any group of people they are special and the other people are inferior or the enemy, and it still works. To be most effective, get two groups to think they are superior to each other, and they will fight each other without knowing they are both being bleed dry by a third party.

2025-02-18 12:31:48

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

Yes, remember Jane Elliott's experiment with blue and brown eyed pupils? Or Milgram's experiment where people had to administer electric shocks to other people? Chilling but still applicable in this day and age.

2025-02-18 12:45:23

Ifeanyichukwu

ifea88@hubzilla.monster

As soon as I pressed submit I was thinking the same thing. Do you think that being susceptible to ethnocentrism is an inevitable byproduct of evolution?

2025-02-18 13:03:20

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

Hmm, I think group dynamics is the main force behind social behavior. I know I emphasize that part of sociology quite often, but I think it is. So whatever group you have, the dynamics will more or less be the same. Difference is a strong incentive to take a social stand. If being banned from your group is imminent, your behavior will very likely be influenced. Unless you are very brave or socially inapt.
What's your opinion on that?

2025-02-18 15:32:15

Ifeanyichukwu

ifea88@hubzilla.monster

My opinion is that it's up to the individual to behave as they see fit in regards to group dynamics. However Ayn Rand said it best in For The New Intellectual, 120

That which you call your soul or spirit is your consciousness, and that which you call “free will” is your mind’s freedom to think or not, the only will you have, your only freedom, the choice that controls all the choices you make and determines your life and your character.

My will to power is humbly expressed through my good deeds to my neighbors IRL and here on Hubzilla. Furthermore, no group think will ever convince me that my religion is the only way, or that my race, team, or PC is the absolute best. As long as we can be civil to one another then I won't rock the boat. In other words Live and let Live!

2025-02-18 16:20:52

Frank Casa

frank@frank.casa

@Ifeanyichukwu

Do you think that being susceptible to ethnocentrism is an inevitable byproduct of evolution?

No. Children don't seem to even notice differences like color or race until they are taught that by adults.

They might be afraid of strangers, but put two young kids of different colors together and they either get along or don't get along based on things nothing to do with race.

It ultimately comes down to the knowledge of good and evil, and by that I mean that one thing is declared good and one thing is declared evil, and once that is done, bad things start happening.

I think that in these experiments, they could have chosen anything, even something simple like having a different armband or different clothes or a different flag or whatever. Some arbitrary difference is designated as being undesired or bad or evil, and at that point, they have an excuse to treat them less than human. This plays out over and over in wars and conflicts and violence.

2025-02-18 17:51:09

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

@Ifeanyichukwu

In other words Live and let Live!

I totally agree. But influenced by others our behavior is. A good upbringing does just this. When I was a kid, when a neighbor corrected me when I did something naughty, not a hair on my head would think about complaining with my dad. Very likely he would give me a sermon. That's how our conscience is built to a large extend. Mine anyhow.

My will to power is humbly expressed through my good deeds to my neighbors IRL and here on Hubzilla. Furthermore, no group think will ever convince me that my religion is the only way, or that my race, team, or PC is the absolute best. As long as we can be civil to one another then I won't rock the boat.

So your referentence system is built on empathy and cooperation. And you act on it. But when it gets tough, it gets harder to follow your conscience and common sense. For instance when it would mean being banned from your social group. Kids challenge each other all the time, and though every kid knows some things are really stupid, they engage in actions like stealing, abusing other kids and drinking themselves completely silly.

Being raised without racial prejudice would probably produce racially unbiased people. But to be honest, I would not bet my live on it. In the end, every difference is a good enough reason to discriminate I'm afraid. Having ginger hair, being plump, being an excellent student. And something nature also throws at us, is psychiatric inconveniences. There are and always will be psychopaths for instance. So I fervently hope it's true, but that would need a good upbringing from birth to adulthood. What are the odds that happening in our society today?

2025-02-18 18:09:49

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

There is also economic factors, and people's perceptions at play as well. If you look at discrimination in the U.S., specifically concerning immigrants, you find a very interesting pattern. I am not saying this pattern is the same everywhere or is the only pattern, but it is insightful.

When immigrants arrived en mass from various countries, they were almost always poor and struggling, and poverty, unfortunately, also breeds crime. The people who were already established looked down on these immigrant groups. As these immigrant groups became established and became more prosperous, the stigma associated with poverty went away, and the discrimination and negative stereotypes were significantly reduced (although a minority of people held onto these beliefs).

Notable examples are the Irish and Asians when they first came to the U.S. At first they were treated very poorly and discriminated against. It was not uncommon to see signs like "Irish Need Not Apply" on Help Wanted signs, and people generally wouldn't hire Asians. The Irish tackled this discrimination by joining the police force and working in various trades. Asians tackled this problem by starting their own businesses and later getting into high paying professions. Now these groups are respected by most people in society instead of looked down upon. Blacks and Hispanics are following the same route, with many joining the police or government, opening their own businesses, or getting professional jobs. We have a growing middle class of Blacks and Hispanics, especially in certain regions like Texas.

So there is also an economic class factor and a stereotype factor involved.

2025-02-18 20:03:44

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

@Scott M. Stolz Ronald Reagan was proud of his Irish ancestry, so..

2025-02-18 23:54:21

Scott M. Stolz

scott@loves.tech

@Et By the time he was elected, the stigma against Irish was long gone, although the past does remain in the Irish collective consciousness.

2025-02-19 10:12:53

et@hub.hoteldaan.nl

@Scott M. Stolz Yes, I meant I think you're right.